Handy get-out clause

That dribbling fool Truth Seeker has posted, in response to a question about how long it takes for adverse effects to show after a measles jab.

Hi, there are no time limits for how long it can take for adverse reactions to show up from vaccinations, it can be immediate or can take years or anything in between.

Which is just a handy way of saying "Any illness that befalls you for the rest of your life I'm going to blame on vaccines."

That's because the arguments at JABS aren't based on any scientific evidence - just blind faith. Anti-vax is a religion to a lot of these idiots.

Pigfucker talks crap again

John "Pigfucker" Scudamore has posted yet more of his shite:

If they gave a rat's a** about viruses they would be using IV vitamin C which has been proven to cure all so called viral diseases

John - please post any kind of evidence you have (as opposed to your usual trick of swamping any discussion with links to Whale.to - hence invoking Scopie's Law - that simply quote a load of half witted senile old fuckwits spouting the same evidence free cobblers.

Any worried JABS readers - no. Intravenous Vitamin C does not cure viral illnesses. There is no evidence to even suggest that it might. It's as likely to cure them as rubbing your face in sheepshit then stabbing yourself in the back of the hand with a 2H Pencil. (I wouldn't be surprised if that crops up on Whale.to as a cure for syphillis in the next week or so, given Pigfucker's propensity for picking up any old made-up toss from the internet)

Edit: Aww, how sweet. Pigfucker has linked to me! :-)
www.whale.to/vaccine/propaganda3.html, www.whale.to/a/jabs1.html

Cybertiger loses appeal - drinks all round!!

Steve has beaten me to spotting this one:Cybertiger loses appeal.

Good, frankly. Dr Mark Struthers was a doctor (actually, I suppose he's still a doctor, just one who's signing on) who was an AIDS denier:

"And are you going to toss in anything relevant into the mythology of HIV causing AIDS…"

a doctor who does down 'flu jabs

"I have never had a flu-jab and don't intend to start having one now. Like the statin drugs, flu vaccinations are a load of cobblers"

while they're being advertised on the front page of the surgery at which he works, supports convicted child killers,

"Imagine your baby dying and the struggle to save him. Imagine being arrested for shaking him to death. Imagine going to prison for life without possibility of parole for a murder you did not commit, for a crime that hadn't happened. Remember Alan Yurko? That nightmare happened to him."

preferring to believe that children beaten so badly that they had several broken ribs were in fact injured by vaccines

"Alan Yurko was forced to admit manslaughter to secure release for a crime he didn't do - and to let vaccines off the hook for killing a baby"

He's a raging anti-semite,

"Look at the young people of Israel who laugh as the bombs rain down on Gaza"

bitter as hell that others have achieved more than he has, bitter that his mother's main claim to fame was shown up as utter incompetence, and is frankly a pointless buffoon and moron (see JABSLoonies passim).

He's now unemployed, and with any luck, he'll stay that way. We all expect doctors to be honest, trustworthy, ethical and professional. Dr Mark "Cybertiger" Struthers was none of those, but is a very nasty piece of work and for all those reasons we should celebrate his dismissal.

John Scudamore talks shit again

John "Pigfucker" Scudamore is spreading his usual lies around, worrying the new inhabitants of the JABS world.

They haven't proven Hep B is associated with a virus

Unfortunately, Pigfucker, yes "they" have. There's a pretty detailed - yet easy to understand - description, with copious references here at Wikipedia. Spreading this kind of dangerous misinformation should be a crime.

More morons

It seems that JABS has quietened down once more, and is simply the refuge of the feeble minded and the easily led sheep. No Gus the Fuss spouting his incomprehensible nonsense, John Stone's more interested in his unholy matromony with loony anti-vax lawyer Clifford Miller on their "ChildHealthSafety" site, and of course no Cybertiger, who's lying very low since he was sacked from his GP job. (Was I the only one to look up when the news that "Bedfordshire GP dies of Swine 'Flu" came through?)

However, there are still morons floating around (as well as Suba and Rosemary - who's still posting any mental "research" she can find - I don't know what she's trying to prove).

MissParker writes:

I was in the same boat during my pregnancy. Then I started reading. And I read some more. And I am still reading and searching for information, even though I have already decided never to vaccinate my son.

So, MissParker, you decided not to vaccinate, then you do some reading. And no matter what reading you do, nothing's going to change your mind. Not even if you get pointed towards sensible sources of information, rather than JABS, NaturalNews, Mercola and AgeOfAutism. Because you've already made up your mind.

You see, really open-minded people also read. They read everything they can, looking for things that challenge their viewpoint, not (and this is crucial) things that support their predetermined viewpoint. They look for holes in research, they look for bias, they look for problems in all the research and news. They don't do what John "Cock" Stone does, and look for holes in reports that don't support him, while unthinkingly embracing and accepting any piece of shit that does support him.

MissParker and lou3 (who came up with a similar post) - please constantly rethink your position (as really open-minded people do all the time) - don't simply decide on a position, then look for information which props that position up. Think from a genuinely open-minded position - not that of an easily led half-witted sheep.

(If it helps, remember - most alternative medicine sites are trying to sell you something.)

An excellent article

At Discover magazine.

Why does the vaccine / autism controversy live on?

Reality / Fiction

They've lost it over at JABS. "Karen" posted the following over the weekend;

Did anyone see Torchwood last night...about the government lying about jabs?Very interesting

Karen - I hate to break it to you, but Torchwood is not a "fly on the wall" documentary series… ;-)

Can they not make up their tiny minds?

The idiots at JABS appear unable to make up their minds about anything. First of all they complain that HPV anti-cervical cancer vaccinations have been inadequately tested;

"As Canada, in large part due to aggressive behind the scenes lobbying, rolls out the not-comprehensively-tested Merck HPV vaccine for girls as young as nine"

Then Rosemary posts a story from AmericanChronicle.com, written by one Christina England*, which claims;

We have always suspected it and now they admit it,GSK are using young girls (as young as 9 in some areas) as human Guinea Pigs in HPV vaccine Cervarix trials.

Phase III Trials Phase III studies are underway in 37 countries with more than 39,000 subjects planned.

So, final tests, on actual people are being done, on far too many people, which means that not enough tests have been done. I see. Sigh.





*Note that Christina England's handy biog states that;

Currently I am exploring vaccines and the adverse reactions that they can and do cause, particularly Autism, ADHD and other neurological and physical disorders.

So not exactly likely to be a well balanced piece then - especially given the headline

Girls used as Guinea Pigs in HPV Trials Admits GSK

and the story being illustrated by a picture of an actual guinea pig…

It's not rocket science - oh, wait…

Some of the real lunacy at JABS at the moment is based on anecdotes about supposed bad reactions to Gardasil and Cervarax - the anti-cervical cancer vaccinations. Obviously a lot of it is "I'm not giving this to my daughter, it's not been tested properly", "It's just a big money maker for Glaxo" etc nonsense, but this piece from Suba (who else?) is inspired stupidity.

Aluminium is common to Cervarix and Gardasil. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure out what is happening here although it would help. Aluminium is used as a fuel to send rockets into space…

Ashley mentioned explosions going on in her blood vessels. Hmmmmmm what could that be I wonder

Apparently aluminium in vaccines (for which there's no evidence that this causes any kind of harm, incidentally) can actually cause your blood to explode!!!

AAAAARGH!! Presumably because it can be used in saucepans, it's also turning your blood into a nice tomato and basil sauce, ideal for pouring over pasta.

Let's kill people!!

It's tempting to change the URL of this site to "suba-is-a-loony.blogspot.com" - especially after this, regarding H1N1 swine 'flu:

Why are we not promoting flu parties?

Because people might die? The same reason that no-one in their right fucking mind organises measles parties any more?

I know, let's have a smallpox party!! And then a syphillis party!!! And an AIDS party. YOU FUCKING MORON!!!

Let me repeat this - SUBA IS A FUCKING MORON. TRUTH SEEKER IS A FUCKING MORON. JOHN "COCK" STONE IS A FUCKING MORON. JACKIE FLETCHER IS A FUCKING MORON. JOHN "PIG FUCKER" SCUDAMORE IS A FUCKING MORON. ANYONE WHO GIVES MEDICAL ADVICE AT JABS IS A FUCKING MORON.

Phew. Thanks.

Edit
Oh my god - other morons have had the same idea (BBC News).

Edit again
The Daily Mash has a great take on this: ALL CHILDRENS PARTIES A BAD IDEA, SAY DOCS

…He added: "From what we have been able to determine so far, it does seem to be the same sort of people who believe that MMR jabs will turn their kids into Rain Man.

"You know, arseholes."

Foam, froth...

Suba has posted this cracking link - a foaming conspiracy rant by a Dr Leonard Horowitz about Swine Flu. Suba clearly believes any piece of shit she sees on the internet, provided it's evidence free, and ideally almost as mad as David Icke.

Mexican Flu Outbreak 2009: SPECIAL REPORT by Dr Leonard Horowitz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBeKB7aKzOs

Horowitz has previous form in being a FUCKING MENTAL PARANOID IMBECILE:
Some interesting extracts from his Wikipedia biography:

Among Dr. Horowitz's better-known titles are Deadly Innocence: Solving the Greatest Murder Mystery in the History of American Medicine (1994), in which he claims that Kimberly Bergalis' dentist, David J. Acer was a pedophile and a serial killer who used HIV as his murder weapon; and Emerging Viruses: Aids & Ebola - Nature, Accident or Intentional? (1996), which advances the theory that AIDS and Ebola were engineered by the U.S. government with biological warfare and genocide in mind.

and

Dr. Horowitz works closely with some Web-based vendors of Holistic Health remedies of various kinds, occasionally setting up their websites for them. In the immediate wake of the 2003 SARS outbreak, he and some associates promoted what they claimed was "effective treatment" for the disease, a spectrum of naturopathic products all using the name "Urbani"; Dr. Carlo Urbani, then recently deceased of SARS, had first reported the disease to the World Health Organization (WHO). The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) and the U.S. Fair Trade Commission (FTC) warned Dr. Horowitz about the products' clear regulatory infringements, but it appears he has never permanently stopped marketing the claimed SARS remedies. As an apparent adjunct to his other health-related businesses, Dr. Horowitz has also attempted to operate a spa in Hawaii, called Steam Vent Inn. It has apparently been shut down by the County of Hawai'i Planning Department since 2006.

So, Horowitz is a scaremongering, lying quack who is trying to flog products on the back of it.

And Suba is a credulous fucking moron - which is about par for the course at JABS.

Can these people not be sued?

Jackie Fletcher has repeated an evidenceless claim found elsewhere on the web, designed purely to create panic about the MMR jab.

In June of 2000, the Center for Disease Control, the World Wealth Organization, the FDA, "leading" scientists and representatives of the pharmaceutical industry got together for a secret meeting.

Their focus was the growing public and scientific awareness that mercury used as a preservative in vaccines for children had unleashed an epidemic of autism.

The participants came to three conclusions:

1. They acknowledged the autism/mercury connection was true (or at least highly plausible)

2. They conspired to create a statistical smokescreen to obscure the science

3. They agreed not to disclose anything that took place at the meeting

This is a completely groundless claim, designed purely to stir up panic and stoke the fires of Fletcher's personal anti-vaccine agenda. It is presented with no evidence, nor any documentation to show that there may be any grain of truth to it.

It is, in short, an outright lie, repeated by Fletcher (who does her level best to come across as the reasonable face of anti-vax frothing). But she (and others) know that they can make and repeat this kind of mental conspiracy theory bollocks until the cows come home, and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

She's an evil witch and wants locking up.

Simple, pointless lying

Suba, idiot that she is, has penned a rant full of some of the most common crap that the JABS crew throw at worried mothers.

I would not waste my money on single vaccines.

She starts with something we agree on, but, I suspect, not for the same reasons.

There is enough measles being pumped into those children getting the MMR to go around.

This is the "Selfish" gambit, beloved of the evil bastards at JABS - if everyone else is vaccinated, it provides enough herd immunity for their children to be at very little risk. The trouble is, their campaigning has helped lower the levels of MMR cover so that herd immunity is unlikely to protect those genuinely at risk.

Your child/children most likely have antibodies already and you may not even have noticed their exposure to measles.

Bullshit. If your child had measles, you'd've known it. Measles, even if it doesn't leave long lasting damage, is a very unpleasant condition for a child.

Some people known as carriers will carry the measles without ridding their body from it infecting others, there is nothing vaccines can do about that only making it worse.

Um - again, bullshit.

Autistic children have been found to have measles in their gut post vaccination.

No, they haven't. Dr Andrew Wakefield claimed to have found it - no-one unconnected to Wakefield has ever replicated these findings, Wakefield's co-authors retracted the paper, and Wakefields methods were found to be seriously flawed, and in several cases his results were found to be fabricated.

Many children are referred to a doctor if they have measles but they do not get the obvious result from blood tests. Only if their immune system is compromised and they cannot mount a normal response to this benign disease does measles get blamed, included in statistics and heralded to the public in a rather alarmist manner.

I have no clue what she's trying to say here, other than "measles is a benign disease". Measles is not a benign disease - measles is a potential killer, it hospitalises a large proportion of kids who get it, and may leave your child damaged for life.

If your child is over one year old he/she and not under nourished and healthy then their is nothing to worry about because their vitamin C and iodine resources should be adequate.

Suba is a fully paid up member of the "Vitamin C cures everything" brigade, as peddled by John "Pig Fucker" Scudamore. A lack of Vitamin C will cause scurvy, and will leave the body less strong than it should be, but it's not an indicator for Measles.

Why people believe this evidence free crap that they pick up from alt-med or "natural health" websites is beyond me.

Actually, it's not beyond me. It's symptomatic of morons who pick a conclusion, then ignore the evidence against it, but lap up made up shit that supports their chosen point of view. Most mothers, and mothers to be are, I hope, brighter than this.

(Frankly, pigshit is brighter than this...)

Symptomatic of the stupidity that infests our world

A new poster on JABS who, again, may well be a sock puppet asks:

Hi, this is my first post and already i'm wanting something! Basically I would far rather take advice from the wealth of experience that ordinary people can offer than the biased party line stuff you get from the medical profession.

This attitude, while wholly stupid, is, unfortunately rather widespread in this country. It's propagated by the morons at JABS and other alt-med / natural health / scaremonger forums, it's propagated by the Daily Vile and other tabloid rags, it's propagated by CAM practitioners, and all too often it's propagated by the "man in the pub".

*sigh* It's as though the enlightenment never happened. I guess one upside to this attitude may be that the terminally idiotic may rely entirely on homeopathy and acupuncture for their health care, and as a result remove themselves permanently from society. The problem is is that they want to take their children with them - I'd argue that this kind of attitude to health care for children is criminal behaviour (reckless endangerment or something) and should be prosecuted - preferably resulting in jail.

JABS still attracting morons. :-(

I had hoped that JABS had ceased having any influence. Jackie "I want children to die" Fletcher has imposed a moderation system, Mark "Cybertiger" Struthers has been sacked from his GP position, and most of the rest of the loons there have been reduced to reposting shit from NaturalNews or Mercola.

However, every now and again, a new member (who may or may not be a sockpuppet) comes along, and has the same question answered…

That question is always "Should I vaccinate?"

That's exactly the question Jackie Fletcher and John "Cock" Stone want asking, so they can provide their stock answer - "No" - and can then repeat their stock arguments, stock canards, stock lies, and stock stupidity. Of course these posters are sockpuppets, but every now and again, some other moron (more moronic than Jackie Fletcher, which, frankly, takes some doing) chimes in.

If you are really worried about measles, I would suggest that you contact a good homeopath and speak to them about boosting your child's immune system and how to treat measles if they catch it. I have an 8 month old son and he is full of allergies and has severe eczema. There is no way that I am getting him vaccinated with the MMR or any other vaccines.

OK. Let's take this apart in the usual way.

A "good homeopath". How is a "good" homeopath any better than any other kind of homeopath? A homeopath will give you water, or sugar pills. Water, or sugar pills will not cure anything. Neither will homeopathic nosodes (homeopathic term for homeopathic vaccines) protect you from anything, because, get this, homeopathic nosodes are… water. Or sugar tablets. They're not going to protect you, or your children from anything. The homeopath that tells you that they will will be going to whatever hell they believe in, because they're charging you money for water. Or sugar pills. That they say will protect your child, but don't. Homeopathic nosodes, homeopathic vaccines are just water (or sugar pills) and they will not provide any kind of protection for your children. In effect, homeopaths are taking your money, and laughing as your children are left open to deadly diseases. But they don't care.

Could I make it any clearer?

Eczema and allergies in small children are conditions that can be treated (in severe cases), or more commonly, they'll be grown out of. You don't need a quack selling you water or sugar pills to assist that "growing out of".

More importantly, if you think that giving your child water or sugar pills is going to protect him/her from measles, pertussis, mumps or anything else, you're fucking deluded, and have clearly been lied to so many times by these quacks that you believe it. If you take their advice, your child could become seriously ill or die.

Measles can kill your child. Do you want your child to be protected against it by water? No. Unless you're a fucking moron.

Cybertiger vanishes

Cybertiger appears to have disappeared. Dr Mark Struthers is no longer listed as working at the Flitwick Surgery… I know he used to read this regularly, so, Dr Struthers - would you like to tell us the story? Have you been sacked, or struck off?

Edit: Many, many thanks to Steve on this one. It appears that Cybertiger / Dr Struthers has indeed been sacked for gross misconduct. Couldn't have happened to a nicer bloke.

How is it possible to be so stupid?

Suba wins the prize for "Moron Of The Month", by making one post, to which it's possible to reply "No, that's not true" to every single point.

If you have vaccinated your child with the routine vaccines leading up to the MMR your child is at greater risk from suffering seizure if exposed to measles by way of nature or vaccine induced. This is due to the aluminium content of vaccines leading up to the MMR in a child with raised body temperature.

That is why Calpol although an abhorrent pharmaceutical product recommended for fever reduction has not been withdrawn off the market for fever management.

Nature wants children to fever to kill virus and clear toxins through skin exantham.
The big pharma cartel want fever managed pharmaceutically and all there corrupt lackeys want to get away with putting aluminium in vaccines and prevent children from dying by using toxic sedation to artificially control body temperature. For the most part children survive but at what cost in the long term ....diabetes, MS, Chronic fatigue, obesity, reproductive disfunction and of course cancer. When they do fever the aluminium can damage the brain causing autism. Who benefits from all these ailments; big pharma, charities, doctors and lawyers can all feed at the trough of our damaged children.

The MMR has been testified to cause Autism although the vaccine itself has no aluminium content. Children who fever with the MMR and had all their pre MMR vaccine shots are at increased risk of vaccine damage due to aluminium loading in their small bodies from previous vaccinations.

There is less aluminium in a vaccine than in your daily intake of food - unless you eat saucepans for breakfast.

Aluminium has never been shown to cause diabetes, MS, "chronic fatigue", obesity, reproductive disfunction or cancer. Neither has any vaccine.

Suba is utterly, utterly paranoid, sucked into the "big pharma / big charity" conspiracy theories she clearly reads every night before bed.

MMR may have been "testified" to cause autism (ie, someone has claimed it is, with no evidence), but it has never been *shown* to cause autism. Anecdote is not data.

"Aluminium loading" seems to be the latest thing for the anti-vaccine mob since everything else has been systematically shown to not be harmful. Evil morons. If any worried parents, or parents to be are reading this - no. Aluminium in the miniscule amounts present in vaccines is not harmful.

The problem is that the loons at JABS can make ludicrous claims like these, without any kind of comeback. Someone, somewhere will believe them. It should be possible to have them sued, locked up, or shot in the face.

It's all about ME!

Truth Seeker gets viler by the day.

Taking a risk with a vaccine in order to protect third parties is an issue i find personally repugnant and a wonderful sales method.
I take full responsibility for my own health and would never ever ask a third party to risk a vaccine for my benefit or my childrens as i think it morally stinks.

Hmm - yes, asking someone to take a risk that you're not prepared to take, simply to help you is a very selfish way of behaving. However, it's exactly what Truth Seeker and the rest of the non-jabbers are doing. They're relying on herd immunity to protect their children, even though there's no good reason for their children not to be vaccinated.

Unfortunately, due to their crass stupidity and selfishness, that herd immunity can no longer be relied on.

Truth Seeker's argument also falls down when you consider the effect of the MMR vaccine. It protects the recipient directly. It's not a case of "take this to help others" - it's a case of "take this to help yourself"; herd immunity is the natural long term outcome.

Herd immunity protects the weaker members of society - the very young, and those with medical conditions which prevent them being able to take the MMR vaccine themselves. For anyone to state that they're not willing to have that as a side effect of a vaccine that helps them is just vile - the attitude of someone who'd not call 999 for an ambulance for a road accident victim, due to worries about running their credit down.

There is no autism epidemic

While JABS is a little short on lunacy at the moment - maybe that moderation is having an effect - I thought I'd post this link.

It's something I've argued for a long time (in person, not on this blog, so don't bother looking for it) - that the "autism epidemic" is mainly due to children who were diagnosed (or dismissed) in the 1970s and 1980s as being "slow", "retarded", or "special" are these days referred to as "autistic". It really is a difference in diagnostic criteria.

When I was at school, there were three boys in my classes who (and please - I'm not a physician, clinician, or any other kind of medical professional - this is an opinion) today would more than likely have been diagnosed as "autistic". Then, they were "difficult", "retarded", or just "weird". The descriptions that follow are purely from memory, from primary (2) and secondary (1) school. They're not intended to be insulting, nor are they intended to be clinical diagnoses.

One boy sat rocking in his chair all day, dribbling, hardly able to speak in coherent sentences, while being able to finish maths tests quicker than anyone else in the school.

Another boy was also able to perform the hardest maths problems set him (at age 9), but was unable to write a simple word (say "cat", or "and"), and had a terrible fear of water. Consequently he came to school stinking, but would not be washed by his mother or by teachers - when they tried, he would get extremely violent, attacking teacher with whatever came to hand; scissors, chairs, tables etc.

A third boy had to be (at secondary school) led from class to class by a friend, otherwise he screamed the house down - but he scored good grades in all subjects except English, right the way through school. He just had no social skills - I once sat across the aisle from him in an exam, and watched him spend the whole exam feeding a long, sticky trail of snot from his nose directly into his mouth with the end of a fountain pen. For three hours. He never wrote a word.

Those are children who today would no doubt be labelled "autistic" - and would receive the help they needed and deserved. They'd also become statistics. The statistics that Jackie "Measles" Fletcher and John "Cock" Stone happily quote to show an autism "epidemic". It's not an epidemic - it's a change in diagnosis. It's symptomatic of a society that is far more keen to give someone a proper label, a society that is far less likely to simply discard children like those I've described above, a medical profession which now realises that labelling children as "retards" or "cretins" isn't acceptable.

However, that medical profession that is doing its best to atone for the sins of the past and is trying to help is now vilified by the anti-vaxers like Stone and Fletcher, and accused of all kinds of ills by the alt-med loons (Truthseeker, jennyr, Gus The Fuss) and conspiracy merchants (Minority View, Gus The Fuss (again)).

You all know you're wrong, that there is no "autism epidemic", that the intoduction of MMR hasn't pushed up autism rates, but you've invested so much of your life in pushing your point that you can't admit you're wrong.

I'm still offering an amnesty. Just be big enough to admit you're wrong, and spend your time looking after your children rather than putting all your efforts into apportioning blame (Gus, John and Jackie) - and I'll buy you a drink and shake your hand. How about it?

I hope they take their own advice

That prime arsehole, Truthseeker, has this gem of advice for anyone suffering from 'flu.

They [Tamiflu] do have some nasty side effects and are nowhere near as effective as they are made out to be.
Check out elderberry extract or tincture or make your own at home from dried elderberries and vodka, Safer and lot more more effective.
It can often just abort the Flu in 2 or 3 days.

If you get swine 'flu, please let me come round your house and watch you try and shift it with a spoonful of elderberry jam and a couple of bottles of Smirnoff.

Edit: Gus the Fuss and jennyr are suggesting now would be a good time to book a holiday to Mexico, as Swine 'Flu doesn't exist, and you can probably get cheap tickets right now. Oh please, pleeeeease… I'm tempted to offer to pay for their tickets, provided they take John "Cock" Stone with them.