ABORT! ABORT!

Over the last few days, several newspapers (The Guardian, The Telegraph and others) have carried a story about research done over eight years to test for a correlation between high levels of testosterone in fluid surrounding foetuses, and higher levels of “autistic traits”, such as poor verbal and social skills later in life. None of the children in the study were autistic, the study did not seek to develop a test for autism. The conclusion of the research was that their findings fit with the theory that exposure to testosterone in the womb is related to higher levels of autistic traits. That's it. There's an extremely good write-up on NHS Choices. The research team was led by Professor Simon Baron-Cohen, director of the Autism Research Centre at Cambridge University.

So far, so good.

You'd've thought that this kind of research into autistic traits would be welcomed at JABS, as while it doesn't actually look at autism, it's sensible, thorough scientific research in that direction, which may, just may help us understand some of the real causes of autism.

Oooohh no. That's not how it works over at JABS. Sensible research is there to be rubbished, built up as conspiracy and completely misunderstood and lied about (whereas anything "alternative" is to be praised and lauded - clay baths for detox, weird tests for monkey viruses, drinking bleach etc). JABS is fundamentally anti-science. This is how Gus the Fuss hysterically reports the story:

Baron-Cohen wants to abort autistic foetuses

All these a*** lickers are trying to do is test a babies suitability to take the massive ammount of vaccines they pump into them just now.

Does the test include Aspergers, ,ADHD, both on the Autism spectrum.If it did on current goverment Autism figuresare 1 in 100 babies would be terminated take ADHD and aspergers in with the autism and every 2nd and 5th child born in a family of 5 babies would be terminated.

and hes meant to be looking out for the good of autistic children
Sounds like the return of holocaust

Hmm. The study isn't aimed at creating a "test for autism", vaccines aren't mentioned, none of the children involved were actually autistic, and I'm buggered if I know where licking arses comes in.

Gus's post was quickly followed by another which likened Baron-Cohen and his team to Nazi eugenics enthusiasts, but this was (surprisingly) removed fairly quickly. However, Aasa has chimed in with some words of "wisdom":

I think the idea of developing a screening test for autism "in the womb" is ridiculous. The testosterone in the womb could be interacting with heavy metals that the mother and fetus are exposed to. Whether the children will develop "autism" later also depends on their exposures to heavy metals and other toxins which can affect their development, even after birth. If they haven't even figured out how autism is caused, how can they expect to screen for it in the womb? Aside from that, the idea of screening for something which is likely environmentally caused, and then terminating pregnancies on the basis of that, certainly does not seem ethical.

So, what Aasa is doing here, as well as completely misunderstanding / not reading the research, is dismissing it out of hand, in favour of her (I just assume Aasa is a "she" - don't know why) own pet theories of environmental factors for autism, especially heavy metals - a theory for which there is no evidence, and which is primarily pushed by private "clinics" offering dangerous, expensive and useless chelation / biomedical therapy.

As I said earlier - you'd think that research along these lines would be welcomed by parents of autistic children; after all, it may eventually provide them with some reasons for their children's condition. But no - because it doesn't support their own theories, for which there is no evidence, it's lied about, blown up out of all proportion, and misrepresented. It's a prime example of the anti-science agenda at JABS.

-- later that day --

A bit more on this - Suba has confirmed what I pointed out about Aasa's post:

The plethora of possible causes of Autism especially genetic ones are but a smoke screen to divert one's attention from the real environmental causes. Vaccines being the major insult to the immune system are consistently swept under the carpet. The carpet has a luxurious deep pile of excuses but the threads will soon wear thin under the weight of a big white elephant.

Doing research into topics the JABS crowd are interested in is no good if you don't come up with results that match their preconceptions.

That cock Mark Struthers has also weighed in with a smattering of abuse for Professor Baron-Cohen - although what he's actually done to annoy Struthers is mysteriously not mentioned. (I get the feeling that Struthers is a very bitter man, ending his career as a salaried GP in Flitwick, instead of with the titles and knighthood he feels he deserves. This may explain his hatred for anyone who's had some degree of success in medicine.)

Sacha (Borat) and Simon make splendid pantomime dames. Any thoughts on a stage name for Sir Simon Baron-Cohen?

What a cock.

Truth Seeker has posted a load more nonsense all over the JABS forum, including this spectacular piece of misdirection about vaccines in general - as a response to Reality Check's very reasonable post (see previous post).

You should reassure us that vaccine cell lines are not contaminated, with bovine,chicken or monkey contaminants.
see http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3469
You should be able to prove beyond all doubt that vaccines are not capable of suppressing TH1 immunity, foreign DNA does incorporate into our own dna and is not linked to auto immune disease.
You should have some ethical arguments as to use of aborted fetal cell lines in vaccines and why we should not have moral issues regarding this.
You should say why you think its safe to inject aluminium into babies and why this can not cause nerve damage.
You should say why babies who have not deveopled full Myelin sheath protection are not more at risk from vaccinations.

You see, Truth Seeker, the problem is that there is no evidence, nor suggestion that any of these are true. You know (actually, you may not, as you appear to have the intelligence level of an out of date packet of Weetabix) that it's not possible to disprove a negative - however, the fact is that, when applied to vaccines, none of your assertions have any evidence to back them up. You may as well demand; "You should say why vaccines do not increase the likelyhood of being struck by a meteorite, cause gang war, or cause the sacking of football managers". There's no evidence to suggest that any of these are likely outcomes of vaccinating - just as there's no evidence to suggest that any of your hypothetical problems are anything more than ramblings that you've just picked up from you latest favourite fundamental Christian or alt-med website. Yours sound a bit more "sciency", and scary, but have no more basis in fact. Why don't you change your forum name from "Truth Seeker" to "Credulous Prick"?

Sensible post drives JABS regulars into frothing frenzy

A new poster on JABS, who has one post to his name (and is unlikely to be allowed to post again) has written a splendid rant, which, before it's deleted, I'll post in full here. Let's hear it for "Reality Check"!

Suba
Dont be silly. This article, like all those before it state quite clearly that vaccines save lives. Stop getting your evidence from daft websites and face up to facts. Vaccines are the best tool we have in medicine and that is why we are working to develop more. Obviously websites like this one (and its adherents) are doing lots of harm as highlighted by the BBC today http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7819874.stm
..or do you think the Beeb is in the grasp of your "big pharma".

Vaccines are developed in laboratories, universities, research institutes, hospitals - do you think we are all corrupted to tell lies so that kids get sick?

At what point in the last few years did Wakefield become a hero figure to you lot? He is one of the biggest crooks going who made a fortune out of the worried well (as we call them) who were gullible enough to buy his single shot vaccines and made him very rich as a result. Can't you see when you are being taken for a ride?

Actually, a lot of this anti-vaccine stuff is generated and stirred by the alt med sector, like it has been doing for the AIDS story, because it seeks to profit from those who cannot tell the difference between manipulated anecdotes and facts. Remember, many of the contributors to this website (and other similar ones) are trying to sell you rubbish medicine – don’t fall for it - look at the REAL evidence, the sort of analyses looking at thousand of patients over many decades. If you must get your evidence from the internet, at least bother to check out the author – are they qualified? Are they selling something? Where is the article published?

The bottom line is - if you want to be a good parent, get your kids vaccinated. And always remember - wanting to believe something, does not make it true.

Get real folks, before its too late and more kids die from our collective stupidity.

scarter

This has, predictably, driven the regulars into a hysterical rage. Let's take that grade-A moron Truth Seeker first, as he goes down the "informed choice" / big pharma route, before reeling off a load of made-up "ingredients" of vaccines:

What nonsense if you want to be a good parent you will not blindly vaccinate like a robotic sheep but make a fully informed choice based on the truth, not coporate bad $cience.

If you are happy to inject your child with such filth as animal pus, fetal bovine soup, DNA from aborted babies, monkey glands, aluminium rat killer,and other toxins go ahead but dont tell me anyone else what to do with our children based on silly emotional arguments about being "good parent"

"Emotional arguments" Truth Seeker? You're the one who posted a picture of bottles of brown liquid with the words "Fetal Bovine serum" photoshopped onto the labels so badly that it could only have been worse if whoever did it had used Comic Sans.

Following hard on Truth Seeker's heels in the moron stakes comes that venal bastard Cybertiger. He replies to the comment about Andrew Wakefield's dishonesty with this gem:

Don't be silly! I think you'd better take a reality check before you shoot yourself up your backside.

Dr Struthers - everyone knows by now that you have no actual arguments other than innuendo and insult, but "don't be silly" is pathetic, even for you.

Minority View then sticks her oar in, with a big old juicy lie, accusing the poster of being heartless:

I think you win the tactless of the year award. The majority of the posters on this site have a vaccine damaged child.

Hmm. For starters, MV, you're not one of them. You don't have a sick kid. You're just pushing your bullshit anti-vax agenda, using those parents who do have sick kids as a crutch to support your vile propaganda. Secondly, parents on the forum do not have vaccine damaged children. They have ill children, certainly; desparately ill in some cases, I'm sure, but vaccine damage is a self-diagnosis. That diagnosis hasn't been provided by real medical professionals, has it? It's a belief, not a medical fact. And you're just trying to exploit that belief to push that murderous agenda of yours. Now who's the heartless bastard?

Oh, and Gus spouts some shit a bit later on. Nothing to worry about - just some abuse.

So, hurrah for Reality Check!

Sugar pills to replace MMR vaccine?

Another new poster as coincidentally popped up on JABS to ask about single vaccines - what a coincidence, as Merck have announced in the last few days that they'll no longer be producing single vaccines. I claim "sock puppet" again - still, no matter. Single vaccines and "choice" is at least in line with the claimed JABS agenda. However, Truth Seeker then chimes in with a claim for "twat of the week":

Have you considered homeopathic nosodes of mumps, measles and Rubella?

Now, this is a bit sneaky. What Truth Seeker would like to see is the whole population rejecting all vaccinations, and as a result having a fair proportion of children ending up in a hospital or a mortuary. However, he seems to have realised that this is an unpopular point of view among new posters, and is making out that he's suggesting a valid alternative, when actually he's advocating treating children with, well, nothing at all - a treatment that if followed nationwide would end up with thousands of children in hospitals and morgues. Evil bastard.

John Stone posts the same old crap. Again.

John "Cock" Stone has again shown his skill in the use of CTRL-C and CTRL-V by copying a post from AgeOfAutism, regarding a groundless and timewasting complaint made about "eleven British health officials" by Bill Welsh, an anti-vax "activist" from Edinburgh. These are his primary complaints:

1. The inexplicable, and unforgivable, failure to react appropriately when it was established in 1998 that autistic children had a novel form of bowel disease/ inflammation.


2. An insistence on an “MMR or nothing” policy in face of the initial, and accumulative, scientific and anecdotal evidence re MMR’s lack of safety for a sub-set of children.


3. A refusal to press for proper investigation, using the most appropriate scientific means of research, of the claims of thousands of parents that the MMR vaccine had damaged children.


4. The promulgation, in conjunction with the Health Protection Agency, of information relating to MMR vaccine safety that is likely unreliable and potentially misleading in that context.


5. The recommendation that unethical treatments be given to children when there is no clinical need and irrespective of whether the child might be prone to adverse reactions.

Let's just take these one by one, shall we?

1. In 1998 it wasn't "established" that there was any such link. It was suggested in one paper, a paper that ten out of its twelve co-authors have since disowned. There was no good evidence.


2. There was no initial scientific evidence, and is no accumulative evidence for a lack of safety. Anecdote and conclusions drawn from coincidence are not evidence.


3. Now, I don't know how many parents Andrew Wakefield and friends, the Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph frightened into complaining about MMR, but any claim that there hasn't been follow-up research is ludicrous. It's just that there's been no good quality, peer reviewed, published follow-up research that agrees with the conclusion Welsh and Stone would like.


4. The information put out by the Department of Health that MMR is safe seems, in the face of a total lack of evidence showing it to be anything other than safe seems to me to be perfectly reasonable.


5. Unethical treatments? Like what? As head of the Autism Treatment Trust, Bill Welsh is no stranger to dangerous and unethical treatments, such as "maximised heavy metal detoxification" - when there's no good evidence that autism is caused by heavy metal poisoning. I assume he's implying that MMR is an unethical treatment. Sadly for Welsh and Stone - all the evidence says otherwise.

All this stuff, John Stone is completely aware of - but as I've pointed out before, to admit it would mean a massive loss of face, so he continues on his ever more ridiculous quest, grasping at thinner and thinner straws. The man's an immoral cock - he's campaigning for something dangerous, when he knows his position is a lie.

So - that's Welsh dealt with. Can we have him locked up for malicious time wasting?

Anti-vaccination is a religion

Now tell me that these people aren't nutters. Truth Seeker has posted a quote from immunizationinfo.org, which explains the science behind the myth that vaccines contain foetal tissue.

"Some vaccine components have been derived from human fetuses. The abortions were not conducted for the purpose of vaccine discovery or vaccine production"

Perfectly reasonable.

However, as Truth Seeker has shit for brains, he then goes on to claim that this is an absolute lie, by copy-and-pasting a great long diatribe from a website by the name of www.jesus-is-savior.com. The specific page is: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils in America/Abortion is Murder/aborted_fetus_vaccines.htm. You can imagine the kind of reasoned discussion you'll get on that site, can't you…? To save you the bother of your own copy and paste job (as I refuse to link to this kind of crap), it starts with a big gory header that reads "The Abortion Industry Contributes To Vaccine Manufacturing", and carries on in much the same vein for pages of shite.

When the JABS crowd resort to backing their arguments with quotes from fundamental religious whack-jobs, any last remnants of their supposed sheen of respectability drains merrily away down the toilet.

Amusingly, the next post, from that halfwit aobbard reads:

Brings it home doesn't it?

Err, no. It makes you all look like twats.

Happy New Year…

Hi all - it's New Year's Eve, and I'm in at home, watching TV while the tiny person is sleeping. Happy New Year to all who've read this stuff over the last few months.

I've been meaning to do an "Admin" post for a while, so this seems to be the ideal opportunity.

I've noticed that, since I started writing this blog, JABS posters have become a little less keen on posting the utterly mental alt-med and anti-vax stuff that they were writing about when I was still a member there. There's less of the "AIDS is caused by Polio vaccine / It's all teh munki virii" kind of mentalism that was there a while ago. This can only be a good thing. I suspect that Jackie may have had a word with some of those on the lunatic fringe (Gus The Fuss springs immediately to mind), as she'd desperately like to have JABS seen as an "alternative view" group. Rather than the bunch of fucking nutters that they actually are.

What they do seem to be doing now is simply posting links to loon alt-med sites (naturalnews etc) or anti-science sites (mercola, whatdoctorsdonttellyou etc) - or quoting the shit that those people write. That makes life a bit tricky at JABSLoonies HQ - do I lose focus, and start having a go at all the anti-vax sites out there? Or do I stick with pointing out how evil JABS is?

Well, over the last few months, the regulars on the JABS forum have acquired a new target. Children who have been beaten or shaken to death. Now, this is currently a very hot topic - as Cybertiger never stops pointing out, there have been several high profile convictions overturned due to dodgy evidence given by the likes of Roy Meadow. He's quite right - poor quality evidence, poor quality statistical claims etc should be shot down in flames. Maybe Cybertiger should read Ben Goldacre's "Bad Science" book, rather than simply calling him names. They actually agree (broadly) on this point. Where Cybertiger goes wrong is when he starts defending every child killer. He's defending Alan Yurko - whose baby son was found to have massive injuries, and several fractured ribs. Not even Andrew Wakefield has ever claimed that MMR causes broken ribs… Remember that this man (Cybertiger) is a GP. If you live in Flitwick, he may be your GP. He denies that HIV causes AIDS and spends his time arguing on the internet that MMR causes autism, and that vaccines in general are evil. While advertising on his website for pensioners to come and have their 'flu jabs. What a cunt. An utter, utter cunt.

Another study showing conclusively that MMR and autism / bowel disease are NOT linked came out this year. That cock John Stone tried to spin it as though it actually supported his view - that MMR causes autism. His feeble bleatings on every discussion board, trying to argue this point were shot down in flames, every time. John Stone is a cock. He has an autistic child, but spends no time caring for him - he spends all his time looking for someone to blame, and trying to big up the MMR Vaccine / Autism "controversy" - when there is no controversy. No-one, apart from John Stone, Jackie Fletcher and Gus the Fucking Fuss believe in any kind of connection - and even they don't actually believe it any more. The trouble is (for them) that if they turn around, and say "actually, there's no connection", they'll lose face. That's what this is all about. They keep on banging on about MMR/Autism when they know it's not true - they just can't stand to lose face.

Cybertiger of course, just says anything the Jabbophobes will like to hear, in order to promote his anti-Roy-Meadow cause. Cunt.

I'm hoping that the lack of original thought on JABS over the last few months is a good sign. The number of posts has gone down, and those that are there are simply links or reposts to mental sites. I'll keep watching JABS, and watching for utter stupidity, but I'll probably not be posting daily - as I've not been doing over the last month and a half or so.

I may start posting some stuff from other nutter sites - if anyone wants to alert me to this sort of shite, please feel free to do so on becky.fisseux[at]gmail.com

Happy New Year all,

Kind regards,

Becky.

Cybertiger supporting the beating to death of little children

Cybertiger's at it again - as a response to a fairly reasonable question about vaccinating premature babies, he kicks off in a completely different direction, blaming the death of baby Yurko on vaccines.

Alan Yurko vaxxed his premature son at 2 months and look what happened to him

Yes Dr Struthers. He was beaten to death by his father. You can hardly blame that on MMR. But you'd love to, wouldn't you? You're evil.

Vegetarian vaccines

Minority View has upgraded herself to "utter arsehole" status - advising a new sock puppet poster on JABS that:

Melanie its certainly not a vegeterian or vegan vaccine.

So, you'd rather abandon your child's health on the basis that a vaccine isn't vegetarian??? (Or rather, you'd use the fact that Melanie's husband is vegetarian as a way of pushing your own twisted, murderous agenda) On the grounds that you/she/he have/has some misguided notion that vegetarianism makes you a better person? You, with your middle-class whimsy; "oh, I don't consume anything made from dead animals"? You're prepared to put your child in danger because of that? You ought to be force-fed with lard. I hope you get trampled to death while protesting at an abattoir.

Gus gets more mental by the minute

Regarding the Robert Napper conviction for the brutal murder of Rachel Nickell in 1982, given that Napper has been diagnosed with Aspergers, Gus The Fuss comes out with this gem:

Aspergers case not properly cared for AGAIN!

He's not actually come out and said that Napper's Asperger's was caused by vaccines (although I'm sure he will), but spinning a murder as being down to poor care of an Asperger's Syndrome sufferer is just appalling. Let's not forget that Napper is a paranoid schizophrenic, already confined to Broadmoor for the rest of his life for crimes of violence - or can that be caused by vaccines now too? You're a vile, vile man, Gus.

I predicted this to myself

As soon as I heard that Suzanne Holdsworth has been cleared of murdering Kyle Fisher, I though to myself "The JABS bunch will be all over this like vultures over a corpse". Sure enough, with no evidence whatsoever, Gus The Fuss (possibly the most unhinged of the lot of 'em) comes up with this:

No sign of what caused the epilepsy??not vaccines of course?

There's no evidence to suggest this. None at all, yet this stupid, evil bastard wants, like the rest of the JABS forum regulars, to put the blame for this child's tragic death on vaccines.

I'm sure that in their own minds they've absolved Theoneste Bagosora of mass murder in Rwanda - after all, 800,000 dead in 100 days can only be put down to vaccines. They'll be campaigning in the street for his release soon, I'm sure.

Like buses…

…idiot comments on JABS seem to come in threes. "Squib" has posted this:

When to suspect child maltreatment: guideline consultation

Nice is holding a consultation about this guideline (16 December 2008 – 10 February 2009).

Although it mentions bruises and subdural hematomas, I notice also that there appears no mention of vaccine induced problems.

This is simply another JABS member promoting their current favourite group hypothesis that child abuse simply doesn't exist - it's the vaccines. My loathing for these people knows no bounds.

John Stone - a man with no concept of irony

That cockend John Stone has just posted this gem on JABS:

The political and medical authorities demonstrated their lack of objectivity by subjecting anyone who disagreed to harassment and abuse, while the children themselves were condemned to medical neglect. Every time they stuff their ears they just prove the point.

Does he not realise that this is what he spends his entire miserable life doing - subjecting those who thoughtfully point out that actually, there's no evidence for a vaccine / autism link to harrassment and abuse, while he neglects the most important thing he should be doing - caring for his autistic child? John - no-one blames you for your child's autism, so there's no need for you to be desperately trying to find someone to shift that blame onto. There is no blame. We're not blaming you. Please, I realise that admitting "actually, I was wrong" will involve a massive loss of face, but at the moment, you're just digging yourself deeper.

Just idiocy

Fortunately, people don't generally end up at JABS if they're looking for cancer treatment - although those who've bought into the MMR lie may well end up taking everything they read there seriously.

Suba has posted one of the most ridiculous things I've ever seen - it's a repost from "Natural News", a hotbed of quackery and alt-med crap. Here are some highlights:

A Proven Cure and Prevention for Cancer the Medical Establishment Doesn't Want You to Know (Part I)

This article is about how you can prevent and cure cancer with a bottle of flax oil and a carton of cottage cheese. As incredible as this may seem, it is a truth that has been well proven and documented.

[if you're diagnosed with cancer] you really can afford to take the time to relax and regain your composure, and then decide on a rational approach based on alternatives that do offer you the potential for complete cure. Whether you have a lot of money or not, and even if you have no health insurance, you really can make a complete recovery from cancer.

There are thousands of documented cases of recovery from cancer using the Budwig protocol. For her research and practice, Johanna [Budwig] was nominated for seven Nobel Prizes, but was kept from receiving any of them by the German pharmaceutical and medical industries that subjected her to endless vilification and harassment and blocked the publication of her writings and clinical studies.

Let's see - conspiracy? Yep. References? Nope. Evidence? Nope. Outright lies? Yes (well proven and documented? No - it's not.) Dangerous medical advice? The Nobel Prize nomination claim is extremely suspect too - The official Nobel Prize website has no record of her nomination for medicine or physiology before 1955 - and more recent nominations are not made public. (Nominations are not made public for 50 years.)

This is the kind of crap that leads to the deaths listed here.

Just as you think it's all calming down…

JABS has been fairly quiet recently. Well - I say quiet; I mean that its posters have limited themselves to reposting rubbish from ridiculous alternative medicine sites such as Dr Mercola, Cybertiger posting abusive and meaningless digs at Anthony Cox, and republishing crap from the Daily Mail's anti-vaccine crusade. The kind of stuff that, were I still allowed to post there, I'd be politely pointing out the holes in the arguments in, but not actual crass stupidity from the JABS posters themselves - the kind of thing that I try and point out here. That's why I've been quiet for the last few days.

However, today, a story has been reposted from a site called "Pharmalot.com", which concerns the tragic death of an infant in India.

Let me tell you what the story says:

An infant in Bangalore, who had a pre-existing cardiac disorder, died during a clinical trial for an advanced pneumonia vaccine. And India’s rules prohibit testing on human subjects with such conditions without prior approval of the Drugs Controller General of India

Let me make one thing clear: The death of a child is a tragic occurance, in any situation. However, JABS (and the journalist behind Pharmalot) are obviously trying to spin this as a "BIG PHARMA KILLED MY BABY WITH VACCINES!!!" story, so let's look at the first line.

An infant, with a pre-existing cardiac condition has died during a trial. Shall we remove the hysteria and spin? "Child with heart condition dies". The story, as posted, provides no evidence that the vaccine trial and the death are linked. Neither is there any evidence that the cardiac abnormality was known about before the trial started. It's the evil bastards at JABS who want to scare you, me and every worried new mum.

It turns out that this trial was trialling a vaccine against the current standard, a vaccine called Prevnar. The child who died had been given Prevnar. Minority View has a bit of a thing about Prevnar, so has decided to spin this fact thus:

so, let us get this straight.

in the regular world, Prevnar can be injected into any baby, heart condition or no heart condition.

once Prevnar is being used in a drug trial as the "placebo" against the new version of Prevnar it can only be injected into healthy babies.

does this make sense to anyone?

Yes, MV. It makes perfect sense. If a drug is to be trialled on healthy individuals, obviously your control group has to be healthy too. But you know that - you mendacious bastard. You try and put the fear of God into people with spin like this, just to satisfy your own twisted agenda.

Evidence free sock puppets

There seems to be a rash (sorry!) of new posters on JABS, all of whom come on asking questions that ara tailor-made for a standard JABS answer. "Pro single-vaccine choice", "Yes - MMR is dangerous" etc. I strongly suspect several of these of being "sock puppets" - designed to give the forum perhaps a little more credibility. However, one or two of them come on initially as "I don't know much about MMR…" but fairly quickly seem to develop some quite detailed "knowledge" about specific vaccine related topics…

They're also fairly easily recognisible as sock puppets due to moronic statements like this from "CathyB":

My son had the single measles vac at 10 months. Three weeks later his temp shot up and he went into convulsions. Of course the doctors all say it's not the vac's fault, but I beg to differ.

Have you considered the number of factors that could have affected your son's health in three weeks? No - of course not, you just blindly decide it's the vaccine. Is there any evidence that it was the vaccine? No. Do you have any kind of second opinion from someone with a medical background? No. You just decide, unilaterally, that it must've been the vaccine. Idiot.

More Vile Posturings

The JABS crew have been bleating over the George Fisher verdict. For those of you not immediately aware of the case, George Fisher was an 18 month old child, who tragically died - for no immediately apparent reason. Dreadful though this is, it happens. Toddlers drop dead - adults drop dead. They just die. It's dreadful, but it happens.

In George Fisher's case though, Jackie Fletcher, of JABS, and that evil bastard John Stone, have persuaded Mr and Mrs Fisher that the MMR vaccine that George had, ten days before his death, was to blame.

Lets think about that for a moment. Mr and Mrs Fisher have just lost a child - the worst thing that could happen to any parents. Then Fletcher and Stone turn up, and say "Your child was killed by SOMETHING YOU DID!!! YOU KILLED YOUR CHILD BY VACCINATING HIM!!!"

However, if you then take anyone in sight to court, claiming it was THEIR (Big Pharma, Ben Goldacre) FAULT, you can assuage that guilt.

The trouble is, the inquest that Fletcher and Stone have pushed the parents into has turned round and said "Er, no. Vaccines had nothing to do with this child's death."

John Stone is still bleating on, as are several other posters on the JABS forum, making out that there's some kind of cover up. Let's see what kind of shit they're coming out with, shall we?

Gus the Fuss: The pharma cartel lies about the vaccines given when the baby is born and then lies yet again when the baby dies evil filthy liars

Allison: Another point I'd like to make that has since bowled me over;

The Coroner, Alan Crickmore with the sole decision into the findings of the death of Georgie Fisher is "a divorce lawyer".

He cited death by natural causes.

Was he really a suitable choice to be allocated such an important medical based decision? I think not.

Aasa: I don't know about the UK, but here in Ontario, coroners need to be practising physicians. One would think that that should be at least a minimum requirement to be a coroner.

Now, it's interesting that the choice of coroner wasn't cited as a problem before the verdict was announced.

It's impossible to please these evil bastards who are, when it comes down to it, dead set on trying to kill your (of if not your, someone else's) children.

They want to ban vaccines, and they want to do this by having a scientist tell the world that they're likely to kill children, or cause autism. To this end, they find any dead child they can, badger their grieving parents by lying to them about vaccines (as we've seen), and then wait for the outcome of a pointless enquiry. They know full well that the enquiry will say "No, vaccines weren't involved", but they put the parents through the horrible experience anyway.

They just hope that one day they'll get a judge / coroner / whoever who's suffering from early onset Alzheimers who'll give them the result that they want. However, they keep getting reasonable human beings, who keep following the evidence and saying "No, nothing to do with vaccines."

In the meantime, they'll push as many parents through this whole (as John Stone puts it) "sorry farago", destroying their already shredded lives even further.

John Stone, Jackie Fletcher et al, I hope you rot in hell.

Yup - I was right about Stone

Yes - John Stone has broken cover and is now trying to spin the George Fisher inquest as a partial victory, implying that it's the final nail in the coffin for the government. Not quite sure how he works that one out.

The most disgusting part of his weaselly-worded post though is the first sentence.

I feel terribly sorry for Chris and Sarah being dragged through this disreputable farago, but I do not think the way they have been treated - or the way the BBC popped up when it was all over - will lead to greater trust in the authorities. By now the public have sense of weariness and disillusionment with everything government does, and this is going to look scarcely more credible than the jury at the Menezes inquest being instructed not bring back a verdict of unlawful killing. I believe they overplayed their hand.

Who dragged them through this "disreputable farago" John? JABS did, with your encouragement. When two grieving parents should have been receiving support after a terrible loss, what happens? JABS dives in to grab their grief for its own cause, telling them that yes, there *is* a reason, and it's VACCINES!!! When, after pushing them through the legal hoops required to get this inquest, not allowing them to come to terms with their loss, the JABS story is shown to be a pack of lies, their world collapses once more. I hope you're all proud of yourselves for the extra suffering you've heaped on these two distraught people.

This isn't a final nail in the coffin of government, but with any luck it'll be the final nail in the coffin of JABS.

John Stone's paranoia

The JABbers have been whining on recently that the NHS is pushing MMR in the wake of news that the number of measles infections is the highest it's been in a decade. Seems logical to me - if measles is spreading, let's push a pre-emptive procedure that will stop it.

John Stone, predictably, sees it a little differently:

Surely this just being timed to coincide to block out the Georgie Fisher inquest along with the stupid programme with David Elliman.

His bleating gets more feeble by the day - which can only be a good thing.

Stone might be interested to see this - the George Fisher inquest verdict. Natural causes. No doubt the JABS crowd will hail this as some kind of victory and proof of conspiracy, when the facts are that a sickly child (whose parents had cancelled MMR appointments previously because he was ill) tragically died ten days after having his MMR jab - with no evidence to suggest one fact is related to the other. His parents, no doubt egged on by the likes of Stone, "believe the vaccine was "implicated" in their son's death."

Well - there you go. It wasn't. My thoughts go out to the family, obviously, but the sight of the likes of Stone and Jackie Fletcher grabbing this case for publicity for their discredited cause has been utterly vile.

When is a charity not a charity?

Gus the Fuss is a twat. He posts gibberish at pub kicking out time, and when he might be sober, he just posts rubbish. Now, he's having a go at the National Autistic Society because they pay their staff.

Hidden agenda maybe to put it in a mild as possible way ..and lets not kid ourselves on theNAS aren’t a real charity not in the terms and sense of a real charity, the organisers draw big salaries

Someone should really tell Gus that all charities pay their staff. How do they expect to get competent, experienced and talented staff unless they pay salaries on a par with local government or the private sector? Pay peanuts, you get monkeys.

Pay nothing, you might get a moron like Gus.

MinorityView displays her inner arsehole

Not biologically speaking, you understand.

I generally have a little more time for MinorityView than most of the dickheads on JABS - she sticks to simply misrepresenting facts and twisting studies, rather than actually spouting obviously ludicrous pseudo-science and quack remedies.

Or at least she did.

Now that you have mentioned homeopathy the pro-vaxers will probably give up on you. They regard homeopathy the way vampires look on garlic

No MV - anyone with even a vague understanding of science regards homeopathy as most people regard a constipated mime artist. Utterly pointless, ineffective, and full of shit.

Suba provides advice that will kill you

This is the kind of advice that can kill.

It is also important to note that even once a person contracts meningitis their fate is not sealed, because bacterial meningitis has been treated effectively, bringing people back from death's door, using such support to the immune system as significant doses of intravenous Vitamin C. Please be aware, though, that a hospital will only administer alternative treatments when specifically instructed to by you - otherwise regimens that weaken the immune system are employed, particularly antibiotics, and the consequences can be fatal. You also need to be aware that legally the hospital must administer the Vitamin C if you request it. You are the boss, not them, but most hospital staff seem to need reminding of this! Seek the assistance of a doctor that is learned in nutritional therapies who can give the detailed instructions to the hospital.

For crying out loud - bacterial meningitis can, ond often will kill, without prompt treatment with antibiotics. If you follow this advice, YOU MAY WELL DIE.

Remember that if you even consider taking medical advice from any of the nutters of JABS. Suba wants prosecuting.

Vaccines made from DEAD BABIES!!!

Lola really is a moron. She's now equating vaccines with cannibalism.

I read that some vax's have material from aborted babies Im very very unhappy about that.. whatever the reasons ethically, it cannot be right in this society to push & push these childhood vax's onto an unsuspecting population of new parents who have no idea about this & like me would be truly disgusted (regardless of medical benefits they believe it provides)if they knew

& what does this fetal tissue provide in the vax's anyway???

to my mind its akin to cannabalism but much worse

For what it's worth, rubella vaccine is cultured on human cells, which are a line derived from a legal abortion in the 1960s. There are no aborted foetus cells in MMR. But the JABS crew will do anything to frighten or disgust worried mothers into avoiding vaccines.

Perhaps Lola was making a genuine enquiry, but then Truth Seeker chimes in with an explanation that does nothing to reassure. Evil bastard.

The dose is the poison

Having failed to find any real connection between anti-cervical cancer vaccinations and ill-health of any kind, Seonaid is using the "Green Our Vaccines" argument and claiming Gardasil is actually rat poison. Apparently there's sodium borate listed as an ingredient.

What do rat poison and the HPV vaccine have in common? The answer is a hazardous chemical known as sodium borate. Savvy readers may wonder what a toxin that is commonly used to kill rats is doing in the ingredient list for the HPV vaccine that is currently being pushed on girls as young as nine and is even being considered for men and boys.

Hmm. While it's used as an insecticide, Wikipedia doesn't list it being used as a rodenticide. According to Wikipedia (I know - not exactly the world's most accurate of sources, but good enough to counter this kind of shit), the median lethal dose in rats (which is probably where the "Rat Poison" line comes from) is 2.66g/kg. So, if, for the sake of argument, we assume a similar figure for humans… Let's take a ten stone human being. That's about 63.5kg. The lethal dose would therefore be (63.5 * 2.66g) - about 169 grams. Getting on for half a pound.

How much is there in a Gardasil injection? Well, a Gardasil dose is 0.5ml. If we consider the vaccine to have the same density as water, that's a total mass of 0.5 grams. The Gardasil leaflet doesn't list the actual mass of sodium borate, but it does list the mass of other ingredients up to 20 micrograms, so we can assume that the amount of sodium borate is less than 20 micrograms. (In fact it's likely to be trace, but I'm giving the nutters the benefit of the doubt here). 20 micrograms. 0.00002 grams. Or, at maximum, about one eight-and-a-half-millionth of a lethal dose - probably far less.

Why not check how much is in your favourite cosmetics?

Sodium Borate in Wikipedia

More on abuse

They've really picked up on this new topic - and it's getting worse. Jabba is now claiming (without citing a shred of evidence - because there isn't any) that:

If you look at the number of deaths from SIDS, abuse, etc, and realize that most of them are due to vaccinations plus the chance of getting autism or encepalitis, no sensible parent would opt for the vaccination.

So most child abuse is actually caused by vaccines is it? Why doesn't JABS adopt a new strapline? "JABS - Defending Child Abuse"

It's just appalling.

Suba's being a twat again

Proof that anti-vaxxers really are slowly slipping off the fringes of reality, Suba is now trying to tell parents who've been scared by the MMR hoax that everything wrong with the body is down to it being too acidic. Does it need saying that this is just utter, utter bollocks?

We were all taught in human biology that immunity comes from white blood cells protecting us from some invading germ or virus. White blood cells provide NO immunity. White blood cells do not destroy germs. White blood cells are glorified janitors that swim around in our blood and lymphatic plasma picking up the garbage we create from an acidic lifestyle and diet. White blood cells are NOT soldiers, destroying some invading germ coming in from the outside world that would make us sick. True immunity comes to each of us by maintaining the alkaline fluids of the body. That is where true immunity is found. The first line of defense against sickness and disease is an alkaline internal environment. As soon as you put something acidic into your mind, into your mouth, into your lungs, your alkaline buffering system is engaged to neutralizing or buffer any acidic food, drink, or thought that might be present. That's true immunity. It is found in the alkaline reserves for your body. When you have an alkaline lifestyle and diet you are able to defend off environmental, dietary or metabolic acids that would make you sick, tired and/or fat. Germs DO NOT cause disease. Acids cause pain, sickness and disease.

So, all modern medicine is wrong, and this fucking wingnut is the saviour of humankind? I think not. Mind you, that's par for the course at JABS.

Cybertiger's support of child killers

Cybertiger makes no secret of his loathing of Prof Sir Roy Meadow and other "expert witnesses" in "shaken baby" cases - preferring to blame those child deaths on vaccines. As we've seen, that appears to be down to defending the family honour. However, he seems to be taking this support for child killers to the extreme:

Imagine your baby dying and the struggle to save him. Imagine being arrested for shaking him to death. Imagine going to prison for life without possibility of parole for a murder you did not commit, for a crime that hadn't happened. Remember Alan Yurko? That nightmare happened to him.

Alan Yurko's name perhaps isn't as well known (certainly in the UK) as Sally Clark, but Wikipedia summarises his case as:

"Alan Yurko, born December 11, 1969 (1969-12-11) (age 38), was sentenced to life in prison + 10 years (in 1998) without parole for the murder of his son, due to shaken baby syndrome".

Cybertiger is a staunch supporter of the "Alan Yurko is innocent" campaign, despite the fact that the autopsy report stated:

"Post-Mortem Findings included minor contusions of both temporal areas of the head, small ecchymosis of the right lower eyelid, fresh subdural hemorrhages of the right and left cerebral hemispheres and at base of brain and some areas of spinal cord, and retinal bleeding. The brain was grossly edematous. In addition there were several old, healing fractures of the 5th, 6th, 7th and 10th ribs, all posterior and on the left."

So, Dr Struthers - are you going to explain how all those injuries can be caused by vaccination?

There's a far more in-depth discussion of this case at the most excellent Millenium Project. I just find it interesting the disgusting lengths a GP is prepared to go to to suck up to the anti-vaccination lobby.

UPDATE
Coincidentally, Rosemary has posted more on this today (and Cybertiger's chimed in too) - a great long rambling essay by that vile anti-vaxer F. Edward Yazbak, full of feeble assertions, all attempting to show that vaccines were to blame for a baby who was beaten to death.

It is interesting to note that when Yurko's verdict was changed to one of manslaughter, the judge specifically announced that there was no indication that vaccines were in any way to blame for baby Alan's death.

They get viler and viler at JABS. By the day.

How normal ill-effects are caused by vaccines - the HORROR!

One common tactic of the JABS crowd is to ascribe ill-effects to vaccines, when there is no evidence to show the connection. Here's a prime example from that egregious bastard Truth Seeker:

And yet it seems if your pre disposed to warts Gardasil may make the problem worse. In the links in my post above some comlained about this, following the vaccine.

"One of the most startling findings is 78 cases of outbreaks of warts
following the vaccine in women already infected without knowing it. Besides
genital warts, some patients experienced massive outbreaks on the face,
hands, or feet, sometimes caused by strains not included in the vaccine"

Sounds nasty, eh? Until you actually read what he's posted: 78 cases of outbreaks of warts among women already infected. So you're infected with the virus that causes warts, and then - horror of horrors - you get some actual, y'know, warts on your skin. Who'd've thought it, eh? But Truth Seeker wants you to believe that the vaccine was in some way responsible - no doubt if he actually reads this, he'd come back crying "but you can't prove that it wasn't the vaccine, can you? Eh? Eh?" - without realising that there's not a shred of evidence to lead anyone but the most strongly agenda-driven moron to suppose that there might be.

With friends like these…

Aobbard is pushing the Budwig Flax Oil Diet as a cure for cancer. Frankly, if she wanted to take it herself, I'd not want to stop her. However, this is what she posts…

I do know of someone with young children who's wife is in late stage cancer who is having chemo. I mentioned this on the Yahoo Iodine Forum I belong to and someone very kindly emailed me to suggest I passed this information on. It is rather a dilemma for me and as yet I have not done so but it is really playing on my mind.
I know its unlikely but could it be that this could possibly save her life?
I can see that in UK since we are not offered any alternatives how easy it is to be sucked into mainstream medicine especially when you are so scared.

So you're taking potentially lethal medical advice from the "Yahoo Iodine Forum", and are considering passing it on to a terminally ill friend?? What kind of heartless bitch are you???

And let me just point out that mainstream medicine is mainstream because it's evidence based, and currently offers the most effective known treatments. Would it not be more accurate to say how easy it is for simple minded fools to be sucked into ludicrous quackery pushed by charlatans and believed by cretins?

Inflated sense of self importance

Suba seems to be convinced of the importance of JABS in the grand scheme of things, and flings out one of those regular accusations of "Big Pharma" trolling. But this time (s)he goes a bit further:

Thomas P, the very fact you hog these boards more diligently than any parent with vaccine damaged kid's is proof enough that MMR is damaging our kids. And you get paid to do it that is for sure. You are part of a massive PR campaign of misinformation, lies and deceit of which you think you are some sort of master. Pharmaceuticals spend 60% of their budget on marketing products, you are part of a corporate cancer that is trying to plough a global furrow in a field made infertile by big farma.

No Suba, JABS isn't important enough for Big Pharma to waste money on it. Individuals make a point of looking at JABS, pointing out the real stupidity there, and hopefully discouraging maybe one worried parent to discard it as the dangerous nonsense it is.

I really don't know why…

…but Cybertiger is still posting the exchange from OnMedica.com. I have no idea why - it just makes him look like a complete twat. Judge for yourself…
http://jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1379&whichpage=4 (not a clickable link, as ever)

Burden of proof

Truth Seeker uses the "burden of proof" argument fairly frequently. His (her?) argument goes like this:

The onus to prove vaccinations do not suppress immunity and do not make one more suscetable to chronic diseases such as autoimmune diseases lies with the makers, the DOH and people who licence them which they have not done.

Actually, Truth Seeker, all the available evidence does suggest that vaccinations do not suppress immunity, and don't make one more susceptible to chronic diseases. The problem lies with cretins like you who have an agenda to pursue, and are well aware that it's logically impossible to prove a negative. For example, it's impossible to prove that vaccinations don't leave you more likely to be attacked by tigers. There's no evidence that suggests you are more likely to be - just as there's no evidence to suggest that vaccinations make you more susceptible to autoimmune diseases. When all the evidence (and there's a hell of a lot of it) points to there being no connection, and there's no evidence to suggest that there is a connection - if you come up with a theory, the onus is on you. But you're trying to convince worried mothers that there might be a connection. You evil, evil bastard. I hope you get attacked by tigers.

New favourite phrase

Cybertiger has a new favourite phrase, which he's using to insult any medical professional who doesn't agree with his potty views of the world, or who he doesn't like. (So - pretty much everyone). It's "scientifically incurious".

Dr Michael Fitzpatrick has rubbished that idiot John Briffa's (who Cybertiger worships) support of a hypothesis that rain causes autism.

Dr Fitzpatrick doesn't know the cause of autism or why its prevalence has increased: he seems not to care. He doesn't understand how genetic vulnerability might interact with a variety of possible environmental triggers, including vaccines. Fitzpatrick is scientifically incurious. And he absurdly dismisses a higher rainfall association without giving it another thought. Fitzpatrick and his ilk are a manifest disappointment.

Anthony Cox has also pointed out the flaws in the study; he too is "scienfically incurious".

Dr Anthony Cox PhD has hilariously covered the rainfall story with his own brand of scientific incuriosity,

Cybertiger thinks that using long words makes him look clever and important, when actually, he just looks like a twat. You see, all he's doing is using the "open minded", "can think for myself" argument that morons like Truth Seeker use, when people don't agree with him. Just with fancier words. He's trying to imply that his fellow medical professionals are so jaded that they no longer care about cutting edge investigation into new science - when actually, he's just trying to pick petty fights with people who know where to draw the line between clever and stupid. Cybertiger clearly doesn't.

It's a conspiracy, stupid

According to laura_c_a, the only reason doctors and nurses are so keen on giving children the MMR jab is because they get paid for doing so:

In my opinion, and don't take this as medical advice - I am not a qualified doctor - and if I were you, I would not take your daughter back.

When the nurse said, "the individual injections she had as a baby didn't 'count'", I think the nurse meant in terms of staff bonuses.

The GP surgery and its staff get ££,£££ of bonuses if they meet their immunisation targets, so of course, the nurse wants your daughter to return!

That's obviously it. Nothing to do with actually wanting children to stay healthy, is it? Oh no. And doctors are either stupid becuase they don't know that *insert quack remedy of choice* cures *insert ailment of choice*, despite it being all over the internet - especially here, on *insert quack-website-du-jour*, or, if they're not stupid, they must be actively suppressing it, because they don't get paid for *ludicrous quack remedy*. That's it! Conspiracy! Obviously. Sigh.

John Stone and Cybertiger in "No-one likes us and we're going to cry" shock

John Stone likes to present himself as the reasonable face of anti-vax lunacy, but whenever anyone points out compelling evidence why he's wrong, he tends to turn into a shouty ranter, flinging ad-hom attacks left, right and centre.

Cybertiger has been whinging that the majority of posters on OnMedica (other doctors - intelligent, thoughtful people mainly) think he's an arse. He even posts their comments to illustrate this. (I think he's hoping to convince people that he's outsmarting them all with his wit, but he just proves what a cock he is).

It's a long post, so here's the address (I'm not linking to it - you'll need to copy and paste): http://www.jabs.org.uk/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1379&whichpage=3

John Stone then chimes in with his usual debating tactic:

It is pitiful. The only response to parents who complain about damage is to claim they are lying - even before inspecting the evidence. What a bunch of nauseating toads. The innuendo over the botched colonscopy says it all. The newspaper repeats allegations which have been withdrawn. Innuendo rules.

What a twat.

Since I started this post, the "debate" - or rather, Dr Struthers trying to wriggle out of awkward questions - has raged on, and Anthony Cox has turned up to add a little more sanity. This should be good; CyberStruthers loathes Anthony Cox. :-) So, what happens?

1. He shoots Cybertiger down in flames:
   

   So Mark Struthers who routinely makes accusations about other peoples conflicts of interest, usually without any supporting evidence, accepts money from the government to administer vaccines to patients when he believes that those vaccines are both dangerous and unnecessary. What a surprise. No doubt he also prescribes statins despite his view that they are a scam, and anti-retrovirals to HIV patients despite his views on the "mythology of HIV causing AIDS".



2. He finds the perfect description for Jackie Fletcher and JABS:
   

   Jackie Fletcher describes her group as a group representing parents of vaccine-damaged children. Certainly vaccines can cause adverse effects, and this is accepted by both the medical profession and government, but the sad fact is, that in the case of the autism-MMR vaccine hypothesis, many of the parents are not parents of vaccine-damaged children, but victims of a terrible hoax that has led them down a desperately sad false trail of anger and despair. Now that every aspect of the Wakefield hypothesis has been undermined or disproved, it is time that we moved on from this debate and that efforts were put into research of treatments and support for autism that work. It is clear that for parents of autistic children, JABS is actually a counterproductive organisation that is undermining research in autism by continually associating autism with pseudoscience and conspiracy theories.

Hurrah for Anthony Cox, laughs all round at Cybertiger who appears to have slunk away with his tail between his legs, and "YOU'RE A COCK, STONE!" for John Stone.

Cybertiger continues to be a hypocritical cock

He's reposted something he posted on OnMedica:

Few operations or investigative procedures are without risk and risks always have to be balanced with potential therapeutic and diagnostic benefit.

Very true Dr Struthers. Why do you take a completely different view when it comes to vaccination?

I'm all right Jack

This is a prime example of the "me me me" attitude of the JABS posters. Aquamarine smugly posts:

Think I'll stick to the good old-fashioned things that have got humanity through the last hundred thousand years or so... good wholesome organic food, sunlight, clean water, exercise, hygiene. Somehow we survived that long without vaccines and without the toxic potions we smear all over ourselves every day, so I think I'll just fall back on our collective experience and take my chances.

While wholesome food, clean water, hygiene etc are all extremely good ideas, and presumably things that Aquamarine has easy access to, there are plenty people in the world who don't have these advantages, for whom measles is far more likely to be fatal. In addition, if everyone healthy with these advantages eschews vaccination, we're going to see more outbreaks of potentially fatal diseases - and for those of the population who for whatever reason can't be vaccinated, with suppressed immune systems - that could be disastrous.

Perhaps there's no malice here, unlike some JABS posters, but there's just a serious lack of rational thought.

As an afterthought, is Aquamarine thinking of relying on wholesome food for protection if he/she ever travels to a country where malaria is endemic?

JABS is down again

This is the funniest thing I've seen in ages. Anthony Cox, scourge of Cybertigger, points out that JABS, when it's down, actually gives you a useful error message.

As he says: "However, one has to marvel at the insight that the forum's software has, even when it is broken"

ADODB.Recordset error '800a0bb9'

Arguments are of the wrong type, are out of acceptable range, or are in conflict with one another.

/forum/forum.asp, line 330

Maybe you have to be a geek to find that funny…

More quackery and snake oil

Aobbard, that darling of the mental asks;

does anyone know the best safe home water treatment for spring water that may be contaminated with ecoli?!!!

What this has to do with vaccination is beyond me, but maybe she thinks that anti-vaxxers have all the answers to her health issues (and believe me, she has a lot). I'd also want to ask what she's doing wanting to drink e-coli contaminated spring water, and how one earth does she know it's contaminated with e-coli in the first place. But then I remembered - she's mental. Occam48 provides a very sensible solution (as he is wont to do); boil the water.

If you are only worried about E coli just bring to the boil, it's not a spore former, but E coli's a marker of faecal contamination, so there are other wider concerns. Why not contact the local Environmental health or even DEFRA office

Occam48's one of the good guys. He does what I used to do, popping up on the JABS forum to point out where people are talking (or in this case, possibly consuming) shit. He deserves a medal. Anyway, I digress.

Suba, not happy with Occam's sensible answer, feels the need to throw in some woo.

You do not have to boil water. You could add some stabilised oxygen also known as "vitamin O". You might just get some extra health benefits too!

Christ on a bike, someone's pushing their new favourite quackery. "Vitamin 'O'"??? You might as well suggest "Essence of duck breath".

Aobbard, cretin that she is, replies:

Thanks for that. For some time I have felt that there is not enough O2 getting to my brain!!!

To be honest, Aobbard (or may I call you Adrienne?), I'd suggest not enough blood getting to your brain might be more of a problem. You're a credulous moron with no more capacity for rational thought than a toadstool.

Stabilised oxygen has an interesting history: Take a look here. Stabilised oxygen is in fact salt water. The link provides you with all kinds of interesting information on companies who have been fined for making false claims about it and its supposed health benefits.

Not *that* open-minded then?

Continuing from the theme below, FionaS has made the perfect JABS post, a post which explains exactly why the site shouldn't be taken seriously by anyone looking for medical advice about vaccines.

Most of the posters on the site claim to spend a lot of time "researching", with "open minds", "weighing up" the "evidence". All sounds very scientific and laudable so far. Most of this research is done on whack-job alt-health sites like "What Doctors Don't Tell You", yet as soon as they come across a piece from a reputable news source - in this case the BBC - which doesn't fit with their pre-conceived ideas, they start spouting this kind of nonsense:

Also this could be a hot lot. It is either really rubbish journalism or economy with the truth to not mention this in the article.

I think this is another effort to erode our right to informed consent when it comes to medical procedures administered to our children.

So, perhaps not quite as open minded as they'd like to think.

FUD, and maths

A post from Squib has had me laughing my arse off, for multiple reasons.
Firstly;

Looks like the BBC is spreading FUD again

For those of you not aware of the acronym, FUD stands for "Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt". Precisely what the JABS crew, under the aegis of Dr Wakefield and his lackey, John Stone have been doing all these years. Let me put this in words of very few syllables. There is no evidence that the MMR jab causes autism. But JABS is there to make you think that there may be just the tiniest chance - and if they don't get you on MMR, they'll try with HPV vaccine - another vaccine for which there is no evidence of harm, but the JABbers keep whispering "but there might be, but there might be…".

Anyway, Squib then goes on to criticise the BBC report she's referring to, with the following line:

Their estimates for MMR at 1.4 per 100,000 are intriguing. This paper below for the US gives estimates of 14.4 cases 1,000,000 doses of MMR.
Perhaps the NHS should recommend parents sending the children over there for their jabs.
I wonder if someone needs to change the batteries in their slide rule?

Now, unless the fundamentals of mathematics have changed since I was at school, 1.4 per 100,000 is the same as 14.4 per million (give or take a decimal place). So yes, Squib, you halfwit, you need the batteries changing in your slide rule. And ideally, get some new ones fitted to your brain, you moron.

(The report is on the high rates of anaphylaxis among children who've had single vaccines: 18.9 / 100,000 for measles and 22.4 / 100,000 for rubella, as opposed to 1.4 / 100,000 for MMR - single vaccines are safer are they? I think not.)

Here's the BBC story

Simple quackery

Typical. As soon as I post that it's down, JABS gets a new lease of life, and carries on promoting its rubbish. Truth Seeker posts the following:

Selenium, zinc, vitamin c, echinacea and elderberry syrup/extract/wine i feel would be far better prophylactics than the flu jab without any nasty side effects.

This is just crap. Even Cybertiger has, in the past, advertised 'flu jabs for the elderly on his practice's website. (Of course he then goes onto JABS and denounces them as evil, but that's because he's a muddle-headed cretin.)

JABS is down

JABS has been down for the last couple of days, hence the reason I've not posted anything. I did wonder if it was just my IP address that had been banned, but it appears not.

If it comes back up, I'll let a spider grab a copy of the site so I can always go and dig for idiocy in the archives.

Must be kicking out time again

Gus has been to the pub again!

WHO!!! SAT him on the naughty step??W.Mitty..eh!! We believe Steve??Take a seat mate were all mates here mate ,now tell us all mate, your point is mate ,as CT asks mate ?eh! MARMATE YOUR MATE STEVES YUR MATE!!!!ha ha! AND IM ANT VACCINE TOO ..PIGS FLYING BYE 6 FLOORS UP STEVEIE BOY /TROLL/GIRL/IT??

If anyone finds out what pub Gus drinks in, please let me know. They obviously serve something very special in there.

The arrogance

Aobbard appears to be trying to start a family feud. Her sister hasn't listened to her foaming at the mouth idiocy about vaccines. Crime of the century, obviously, in aobbard's book:

I am so mad at my sister who has allowed my neice to have this vaccine without doing any research or listening to me.

Let's look at the facts, shall we? Aobbard believes everything is bad for her: fluoride, vaccines and especially "electrosmog", the latter being so bad that she wears a special apron to sit in front of a computer. She also believes in Morgellon's Syndrome and chemtrails. She is, in fact, a health conspiracy nutjob, class 1. Is anyone surprised that her sister doesn't listen to her? I imagine that if she [her sister] had any concerns, she probably talked them over with health professionals; people who've actually had some training in medical matters - not loons whose medical knowledge comes from rapaciously consuming every idiot and quack website out there on the internet.

John Stone sucks Cybertiger's cock…

… metaphorically, I hope.

Were I not banned at JABS, I'd obviously post this there, and politely point out why he's being a disingenuous cocksucker. As it's my blog, I'll do it here and point it out in no uncertain terms. Rudely.

I am not sure I can see what the big story is with Cybertiger and his mother. They both disapprove of David Southall. This fact may not be without interest, but it is not in any way sensational.

The big story, dickhead, is that Cybertiger, Dr Mark Struthers, who recently clumsily dodged the question as to whether or not he gives or recommends Meningitis jabs to his patients, and also works for a practice that actively encourages its elderly patients to get 'flu jabs, spends a lot of his time on the JABS forum (an anti-vaccination forum) being personally abusive about Professor David Southall, a man who was roundly condemned in a report that his mother was partially responsible for. That report was (which had nothing to do with vaccination), in itself, castigated by pretty much everyone except Dr Mark. Dr Mark wrote to the BMJ (the journal that you're always so proud of when they print one of your rabid responses John - it's not a medical paper, it's a comment on a blog, dickhead) to say how unfair the vitriol aimed at his mum's report was, while claiming no interest. Dr Mark now sees fit to get back at the nasty man who caused his mum so much pain and anguish by swearing at him on the JABS forum. Awww. How sweet. I'm sure she's ever so proud.

See it now, dickhead?

(Did I mention that John Stone is a dickhead?)

Loony at the school gates

It seems to be full moon wherever Truth Seeker lives today. It's no wonder you don't have friends, you arse…

I used to be quite open about our childrens non vaccinated status but am more wary these days as some parents are being brain washed into thinking we are dangerous and somehow putting their vaccinated child at risk

Or, to put it another way, some parents are capable of rational thought, and don't just believe every half-baked idea they read on the internet. They also probably don't like the insinuation that they're being brainwashed, especially when it comes from a gibbering loon who stares over their shoulder with wild eyes while talking to them about the secret courts and men in black who are going to take their children away from them. LOOK AT YOURSELF, YOU MORON!

And another thing… *RANT RANT RANT*

The kind of foaming lunacy that Truth Seeker posts could come from the "rejected for being too mental" drawer at the Daily Mail… The first paragraph here could be straight from the Jabs-o-matic at the bottom of the page…

Er dont start this in the first place, look at the big picture of new labour creating paranoia and scaremongering and assumption of guilty till proven innocent, this is just another step that is happening all around us.
Plastic policeman in place of real police
Nurses making desicions only doctors should.
Terror laws used for trivial spying on innocent people by councils.
Park wardens asked to approach single men in parks as potential molesters.
Dads afraid to take daughters picture winning a swimming gala.

Amusing that a JABS forum member is accusing others of "creating paranoia" and "scaremongering".

More on AIDS

While I appreciate that few people are likely to turn to JABS as an immediate source for AIDS treatment advice, I still find it disturbing that Rosemary is putting out this kind of unmitigated rubbish.

Obviosly taking anti-retrovirals is Not a good idea if you are HIV+

'Most common cause of deaths among HIV+ patients is LIVER FAILURE caused by taking TOXIC DRUGS'

Wednesday night whimsy

Gus The Fuss has gone up massively in my estimation. He appears to be a fan of avant-garde noise rock bands, punctuating his posts in the manner of Godspeed You! Black Emperor.

Trust me I’m! Not a doctor??

Cybertiger - it's a family thing

One of Cybertiger's personal bugbears is a chap by the name of Professor David Southall, a paediatrician who found notoriety in the Sally Clark case. That's often the reason Cybertiger states for his loathing of the man - but actually, he's not telling the whole truth.

To give you a flavour of Cybertiger's fury whenever the name is mentioned, here are a few quotes:

"They CANNOT be SERIOUS!!! The man is dangerous and a menace to society."

"But Southall doesn't do apology, never, ever - the arrogant bas**rd!"

"I hear Southall (aka spotty Leopard) is now saving children's lives in Africa. Pity the Africans!"

In 2000, a report of an investigation into Professor Southall's work (unrelated to the Sally Clark case) was published; this report (the Griffiths Report) was scathing of Professor Southall, his methods and ethical practices. (Guardian report)

However, the Griffiths report was itself heavily criticised; "We believe that almost every statement made about the design, conduct, and reporting of the neonatal continuous negative extrathoracic pressure (CNEP) trial in the Griffiths report was ill informed, misguided, or factually wrong. " (More from The Guardian here)

Pretty damning stuff - the Government came under pressure to withdraw the report.

What does this have to do with Cybertiger - Dr Mark Struthers? Well… one of the members of the panel that drew up that discredited Griffiths report was one Joyce Struthers - little Mark's mum. Is Mark simply going after Southall at every opportunity because Mum asked him to? Or because she didn't manage to "get" him, is he attempting to right a perceived slight on the family name? Does Dr Mark still live with Mum?

I'd like to state now that I am not expressing any opinion of the ethical rights and wrongs of any aspect of Professor Southall's behaviour - merely pointing out Dr Mark's, um, "conflict of interest", and why he brings him into every possible thread on JABS, even when he has nothing to do with vaccination…

Heads can explode from paranoia y'know...

Truth Seeker and Janet have their say on a non-story about tradesmen being encouraged to report child abuse and to not just ignore it…

Truth Seeker: …these people have secret courts to cover up vaccine damage and take children away from them with evidence that cannot be even heard by the parents

Janet: The new Child Protection Policy is devised to assist the covering up of medical negligence and vaccine damage

I suspect these people never leave the house for fear their children may be abducted by the MenInBlack from the Department of Health.

Rosemary's theory on AIDS

As I've pointed out before, Rosemary believes anything she reads on the internet regarding gene mutation. Now she's trying to convince the world that HIV is a genetic condition, after she's read "some research" that "proves" it. No link to the research of course, or any mention of its credentials…

Just recently I was given access to some research which proves that this particular genetic mutation is also associated with and can result in a HIV infection.

So I shall be providing the exact details of the function of this gene and mutated protein because as a parent of an affected child who has this neurodegenerative condition I would like some answers ???????

I would like to know the ORIGINS OF THIS GENE ? and WHY ? these children have ended up inheriting this mutated gene...particularly why they have ended up with a gene that results in a HIV infection ??

Drinking from the cup of Gus

Looks like Cybertiger and Gus are now regular drinking buddies. This man´s allegedly a DOCTOR for crying out loud! What on earth is he talking about?

The pharmacovigilant operative, passionate about drug safety, knows nothing about statins … so defends them to the hilt by tying himself in the silliest of semantic knots. Guff like this can’t be made up: you are a weird creature, tom puff!

PS. I thought you weren’t talking to me, so "contemptible" I be.

It´s official - he´s a cock.

More gibberish

Again - not sure what Gus is trying to say here:

Cheap as chips Occam Ye ! another impartial FROM an impartial body,on the effacy of vaccines . I fell of mee seat when I opened that one LAAAARRFFING ..Try going into the butchers and asking about the benefits of being a vegetarian,but then again its coming up to Xmas and the butcher will be looking for that Xtra bit of dosh..sooo the answer jus might not be fair ,just like the Gp when you ask about vaccines like you I suppose??

(Apologies if postings are a bit ad-hoc over the next few days - I´m away, and not sure how regular internet access is going to be!)

Wearing stupidity with pride

A new poster has just turned up at JABS, and immediately announces that they're the kind of credulous moron who believes everything they read on the internet provided it's not backed up with any kind of evidence: Manyoaks writes:

My apologies if this inappropriate. In my opinion MMR is involved with autism.

My goal: To identify the cause of regressive autism, get it disseminated and end my research and go hiking in Yosemite.

Background: I have no family members with autism. I know no autistic individuals. I found an Internet bulletin board were the posters reported that treating sleep apnea also treated reflux, colitis and irritable bowel syndrome.

In summary: "I know nothing about this, have no real interest, but some bloke told me, so it must be true." It's people like this that make me despair…

Cybertiger is a cock

OK - here's an "admin" type post I've been threatening for a while.

Dr Mark Struthers, of the Flitwick Surgery has been posting on this blog, since its inception, as "Cybertiger".

To date, he has yet to make a single comment that isn't simply abusive, aimed either at me personally, or at other commenters.

Personal abuse directed at me doesn't worry me. It's abuse aimed at other commenters that annoys me. So, do I:

a. Delete all the posts he's made and ban him from commenting in future?
b. Keep the shit he's already written, but ban him from making future postings?
c. Keep the stuff that he's written, but filter and delete any future postings that are simply abusive?
d. Just keep allowing him to post whatever shit fills his tiny mind with a view to compiling it into a book and posting it to his employers?

You see - Dr Struthers is a cock. However, I don't approve of censorship. So… I'd really rather just say to Dr Mark "I'm A Prime Arsehole" Struthers: "Mark - if you wish to keep commenting on this blog, please make your comments relevent. If they're not relevant, or are simply abusive, they may well be deleted."

Any thoughts are most welcome - on this thread, anything abusive from Dr Struthers will be deleted. Because he's a cock. For now, I won't delete any of his other posts.

I hope that's fair.

More paranoia

Suba should really be locked up for his (or her) own safety - everything and everyone seems to be out to get him. This time, on the news that an Ebola vaccine is being developed in the Netherlands and the United States:

Expect an Ebola outbreak in the US or the Netherlands in the next few years by accident or by design

That's right Suba - the New World Order is planning to massacre the world's population in one of the most horrible ways imaginable. Now - go and have a lie down.

Pphhht.

Again, not vaccine related, but funny. :-) I know my spelling isn't 100% - whose is? - but if you were typing this, you'd check, surely?

Incidently, there is a difference between 'mistake' and 'negligence'. A mistake is, for example, spelling the word callender with an 'e' instead of an 'a'.

Thank you laura_c_a. (I know a joke about C&A knickers…)

Foaming AIDS madness

How any of the JABS crowd expect to be taken seriously about vaccines when they post crap like this about AIDS is completely beyond me. Suba will be claiming the Moon Landings were faked and that the Loch Ness Monster lives next door soon.

I can assure you that the creation of the AIDS virus by the WHO was not just a diabolical scientific exercise that got out of hand. It was a cold-blooded successful attempt to create a killer virus which was then used in a successful experiment in Africa. So successful in fact that most of central Africa may be wiped out, 75,000,000 dead within 3-5 years.

It was not an accident. It was deliberate. In the Federation Proceedings of the United States in 1972, WHO said: "In relation to the immune response a number of experimental approaches can be visualised". They suggested that a neat way to do this would be to put their new killer virus (AIDS) into a vaccination program, sit back and observe the results. "This would be particularly informative in sibships," they said. That is, give the AIDS virus to brothers and sisters and see if they die, who dies first and of what, just like using rats in a laboratory.

They used small pox vaccine for their vehicle and the geographical sites chosen in 1972 were Uganda and other African states, Haiti, Brazil and Japan. The present or recent past of AIDS epidemiology coincides with these geographical areas.

I'm so glad I can be assured of that. Loon.

Just a quick one (oo-err)

Not really an example of JABS poster stupidity, but it did make me laugh. From the Pope of JABS and all-round foaming-at-the-mouth-pompous-arsehole, John Stone:

I am running out of friends and acquaintances

Really? Funny that.

Killing with homeopathy

It's often said by advocates of homeopathy that homeopathy never killed anyone. Well, Hannah's son is a statistic waiting to happen. Having been prescribed an epipen to dispense emergency adrenaline in case of severe allergic reaction or anaphylactic shock, this is what Hannah does.

...there was an article in the BMJ 3-4 years ago about deaths following anaphylactic shock which was very interesting. There are (or were at the time) 20 deaths per year, but HALF of them were due to incorrect doses of adrenalin being administered. That really shocked me at the time, but doesn't surprise me now.

I don't take my son's epipen out with us now (not that you can overdose on an epipen), but use a homeopathic remedy (Apis) very effectively.

If he has an allergic reaction bad enough to warrent an epipen, she's quite possibly going to kill her own son. And she's proud of this.

Antibiotic-resistant bugs

Several posters on JABS are worried (and quite reasonably so) about MRSA and other antibiotic resistant nasties. Obviously, they blame it on the big pharmaceutical companies, and doctors, for their over-eagerness to prescribe antibiotics. However, it's not going to help that you have morons like jennyr around:

I had the most horrible cold recently which ended up being a potentially nasty chest infection. I think it was because I had been working with nursery aged children who had recently been jabbed. I have never had such a bad illness before. As I was worried about a serious secondary infection such as pneumonia or bronchitis, I put myself on antibiotics (get them abroad) because I KNEW that the local GP practice would send me away saying it was 'just' a viral infection

For some reason I wasn't massively surprised when no-one pointed this out to her.

Utter desperation

Rosemary is now invoking the bible, and claiming vaccination is against God's will. So, with no science to back up her wild claims, she tries claiming a giant invisible sky fairy is on her side.

Basic guidelines were given to the children of Israel for the sake of their health. Deuteronomy 12:23 reminds us that our blood stream is our lifeline. When that lifeline is contaminated, disease/infection sets in until the body is rid of it. How does injecting the life line of our children with residual components of cell lines from aborted babies, animal DNA and the disease contaminants their tissues (used in manufacturing) carry, formaldehyde, aluminum hydroxide (known for killing cells/tissue), mercury, bacteria and virusess. How does this compute into "God gave us modern medicine"?

To quote from a Toy Dolls album:

"We're MAD!" I was going to slow down a bit after yesterday's bumper crop of buffoonery, and do an "admin" kind of post. You know: "Thanks for reading, here's what's changed in the last couple of months… etc". I was going to. Then I read this, the latest installment in the "I want to be as mad as Gus The Fuss" wars, from Truth Seeker.

My mistake its 0.5mg per dose of highly toxix reactive aluminium, not 0.5g.
However as most kids have fluoride this will ensure it passes the blood brain barrier.

At some point, Mr Seeker's brain appears to have leaked out of his ears, as he clearly has less than one µclue about, well, anything. "Kids have fluoride"? That's possibly the most meaningless string of words I've read since, oh… last night.

It's a bumper day for stupidity!

"Seonaid" has posted this rather splendid piece of crap - it may be a quote from some other cretin, but hey, as they're so fond of saying, "if an idiot claims the sun rises in the morning, is he an idiot for saying it"?

I read your excellent article about Dr Moulden's work. He is right that vaccines cause microvascular strokes, but that is just the tip of the iceberg. They cause all allergies, autoimmune diseases, cancer, non-traumatic seizures, genetic defects, etc.

I should point out that there are well understood mechanisms for many of these - and none of them involve vaccines.

Is there a full moon today or something?

NOW tell me that these people aren't mental

"Jacquia" has posted a remarkable rant about viruses, triggered, it seems, by her being quoted in that well known scientific journal, "The Brighton Evening Argus And Liar". Some of it seems to be unattributed quote, and some seems to be all her own work. It matters not - she's mental, and dangerous.

A virus is simply a “poison” which provides the growth of microorganisms that are parasitic. “Virus” comes from a Latin word root meaning “poison,” hence viral infections are nothing but severe cases of “blood poisoning”…

Viral infections like the Human Papillomavirus that manifest on the skin indicates that the body’s blood and lymph fluids are toxic…

Right you are, you dozy cow. Blood is toxic, and a virus is blood poisoning. No! It isn't! Go and read a biology textbook! Maybe starting with The Ladybird Book Of Virology. How do these people manage to walk and breathe at the same time?

It's the monkey viruses!

I mentioned Rosemary a while ago, and her obsession with monkey viruses altering people's DNA while they sleep. Here's a perfect example. What, for JABS anyway, would seem to be a perfectly reasonable post - a cut and paste about the United Reformed Church in the USA questioning the need for mercury in vaccines - led, in eight posts, to this fine example of utter bonkersness.

So benefits of vaccination?
i don't know of any....mainly because I am aware how much damage is being caused by the vaccines, especially the vaccine viruses, and contaminants like the animal viruses [retroviruses] that have been transmitted via the vaccines.

Therefore how can there be ANY? Benefits of vaccination?

We now have 1000's of endogenous retroviruses transmitted via vaccines sitting in our genome causing chronic diseases.
Diseases that we never had to worry about before vaccination !
Diseases that have been created by vaccination.

With all these changes to our DNA, it's odd that we've not regressed in two generations to a state of mumbling idiocity, with no more self-awareness than a haversack. (Although some posters on JABS seem to be evidence for the theory that this has in fact already happened.)

For those who may be a little worried about these DNA altering viruses, the only person in the world who's ever claimed to have identified them is Dr John Martin, of the "Centre For Complex Infectious Diseases" - a website that, surprisingly, sells treatments to reverse the DNA mutations. In other words, a grade-A nutter and con man. Rosemary appears to be the only person in the world who believes him.

Losing it

Truth Seeker is getting wilder and wilder in his claims. While discussing the HPV vaccines, he posts this:

Its more like 20 deaths now bad commercial scientist,defender of iatrogenic death and junk science, unless proven otherwise i will assume occams razor.

Then to back this wild claim up, he posts this:

Across the clinical studies, 17 deaths were reported in 21,464 male and female subjects. The events reported were consistent with events expected in healthy adolescent and adult populations. The most common cause of death was motor vehicle accident (4 subjects who received GARDASIL and 3 placebo subjects), followed by overdose/suicide (1 subject who received GARDASIL and 2 subjects who received placebo), and pulmonary embolus/deep vein thrombosis (1 subject who received GARDASIL and 1 placebo subject). In addition, there were 2 cases of sepsis, 1 case of pancreatic cancer, and 1 case of arrhythmia in the group that received GARDASIL, and 1 case of asphyxia in the placebo group.

Posting data that shows the opposite of what the poster claims (hoping, presumably, that most people won't actually read it) seems to be becoming a more popular tactic among this lot.

More top notch medical advice

This time from "jacquia", one of those morons who apparently researched her medical degree by reading the literature in Neals Yard. Here, she's exhorting people to avoid the HPV vaccine, and instead use the "natural remedy" Pau d'Arco.

Researchers have used Pau d'Arco for AIDS, inflammation of all types, allergies, all types of cancer, as a blood builder, for liver disease, diabetes, warts, Hodgkins disease, lupus, malaria, polyps and many other diseases, so it's usefulness has long been established.

Wouldn't it be wiser to use something that is all natural and more gentle on your body...then something that no one knows the end results?

Actually, as Occam48 points out, there's no evidence that it's effective for any condition, it's banned in Canada as it's not been shown to be safe, and it's actually highly toxic in higher doses. So, not really an alternative to an HPV vaccine - more an alternative to drinking paraquat.